THE SYSTOCRAT PAPERS

OUR LIVE COVERAGE OF THE FINAL PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE CONTINUES BELOW:

Mary J:

Questions on the VP?

BRING IT!

"Americans have gotten to know Sara Palin, shes a reformer. She's an inspiration to women..." yeah, if only we lived in the 1800's when abortions were still performed with tree bark and a prayer.

Wait, did he just say that Biden has bad foregin policy? Did he forget that his running mate has all of 15 minutes of foregin policy experience and has only used 1 page on her brand spanking new passport?

OK.  My ears are smoking.  Sarah Palin knows more than just about any other American about special needs children?  She has a six month old Down syndrome son!!!  I didn’t know jack about parenting after six months when facing that first time experience after having tons of experience with children.  Sarah Palin doesn’t know jack about children with disabilities simply because she was irresponsible and popped one out over the age of 40 so she could be a sitting governor who was pregnant.  How has this advanced women?  If men could give birth I’d say it’s just as irresponsible.  I think it’s pretty widely accepted now that McCain made a huge mistake in picking Palin.  The average American voter may be a dope but not so dopey (thankfully) to have fallen for her hook, line and sinker like we/they were supposed to because she’s a woman with a special needs child.  And you can’t tell me McCain knew a thing about the pregnant daughter before picking her.  His pick of Palin is an absolute disgrace and was the last nail in the coffin to what could have been an amazing race by McCain.

TD: My god, woman, can you type fast!!!!

Chris J: A nuclear reactor on a ship is DRASTICALLY different than a regional scale nuclear power plant.  That is the weakest argument ever, for nuclear power.

Special guest Bryna Bear joins us in the studio:

Palin - A reformer who will cut out the crony-ism and the good old boys?  I'm not so sure that she will actually do that considering her track record with pressuring for the firing of her ex-brother in law.  hmmm. If people are questioning Obama's experience in terms of being qualified to lead this country, I don't understand how they could look the other way when considering Palin.

And Biden voting against the first Gulf War?  Maybe that wasn't such a
"wrong" thing to do.
 

Chris J: Bringing up NAFTA can only help Obama.  The deal that shipped American jobs to the four corners.

Dave L: It is almost like McCain secretly works for the Obama Campaign.  He keeps setting him for great and believable come backs.
 

TD: I think McCain is a little tight, like a team down three touchdowns in the fourth quarter of a playoff game.  I will note that there's some concern in my living room that Obama keeps openly laughing at McCain.  Beware the condescension factor!

Chris J: What's more expensive than the War on Terror, well, the War on Drugs and McCain swings and misses again.

Bryna B: Drill baby drill?  not a sustainable solution.

I'm glad that Obama brought up human rights in the whole scheme of our
economic concerns with free trade.  The US has a long history of putting their economic interests over the lives of people in other countries, particularly in Latin America (see: Haiti, Nicaragua, Panama...)

TD: No doubt, and most Americans don't know squat about it.  They should teach that sh*t in grade school!

Mucho: Mccain- we have to listen to the words cause this is wayyyyyyyyyy past my bed time and I cant keep up if he uses more than 2 syllables"

Obama, STOP LAUGHING AT THE OLD FART! He doesn't know any better!

Luke O: McCain is getting killed.  Come on John, give us something new, other
than your old talking points! 

Paddy O: Great answer by Obama on the car makers and the way they make cars.

You no what, F McCain and his god-damned pre-conditions.  I'm so sick of that friggen line.  I hope you lose your Senate re-election whenever that is.  26yrs is too friggenlong in DC.  A horrible campaign...your staff sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TD: I agree with everyone who has expressed the sentiment that McCain is falling on his face here.  So far, this is the clearest victory for Obama of the three debates. 

Chris J: Man....all these people show up to these rallies that JUST happen to have the perfect situation to turn into a ridiculously long anecdote that does nothing but make my eyes roll back into my head.

Paddy O: In case anyone is interested, the Phillies are up 5-0 in the 5th inning and a good scene in the Matrix is about to come up on HBO2.

TD: Right on, bro.  Obama's putting this thing out of reach.  Hard to believe they'd send McCain out there with the same old ammo. 

Dave L: Oh my god, the answer to health care isn't electronic files...  Obesity!  He said it.  We need to cut the funding to ADM and Cargill so they can buy corn cheaper then it costs farmers to produce it.  They can then turn that corn into all that cheap processed food that is killing Americans.

TD: This guy (McCain) is talking about gold-plated health insurance plans.  Says the guy with 13 houses! 

Chris J: And McCain is down folks.  The business tax smackdown just threw gollum into Mt. Doom.

McCain...listen.  Don't put the blame on people for not belonging to a gym, put the blame on subsidies that allow twinkies and happy meals to be dirt cheap next to farm raised chicken and carrots.

TD: SENATOR GOVERNMENT!!!!!  FROM "THAT ONE" TO "SENATOR GOVERNMENT!!!"

Dave L: Here he goes again pitching softballs to Obama.

Dennis H: It seems like McCain is trying to agitate Obama. O isn't taking the
bait. Mc doesn't recognize that he is overmatched.
God bless Mc, he was a commendable soldier. He follows commands. He is
not that good at tactics. He is out of his league when it comes to
strategy.

I bet Joe the plumber is wishing he were never brought up. But Mc isn't
giving up on Joe's vote in Ohio.

After O's answer on Joe ...re: small business, and health care, I bet
Mc is wishing he hadn't brought Joe up again.

Mary J: I am SO tired of hearing about Joe the Plumber!  I think America ’s abhorrence for Sarah Palin shows us that little slogans and trying to repeat them as much as possible is not going to score points in this debate.  It’s like hearing Sarah Palin talk about Joe Sixpack (I still can’t believe she said that; she must have gotten 20 lashes for improvising on THAT one) and HaaaKeey Moms every other sentence.  Barack’s answers are well thought out and detailed and that’s what people are looking for.  Can you guys already see him making his first address to the country?  These debates and the last several weeks have really turned things around.  In the first debate I thought Obama was a little smirky and nervous.  Now he appears nothing but confident and smart but McCain is looking nervous.

Chris J: Alito, Roberts, and Thomas.  I'm sure McCain voted for all three.  Why not dig up Marshall to bring the court back to the center?

Luke-O: McCain, a federalist is not someone who believes in local power.  A
federalist believes in a STRONG CENTRAL government.  McCain thinks that
divesting power from the federal government to the states is federalism.

Dave L: Oh my god the abortion issue!  I was hoping it would never come up. Returning abortion to the states will just send women out of state to get one.  The idea is that abortion is murder is belief based and we can't allow the state or federal gov't legislate one group's beliefs over another's. 

Bryna B: oohh boy.  Roe v. Wade and the issue of supreme court appointments.
I agree that nominees should be judged on their qualifications, but it is
incomplete to judge them solely on that.  A variety of ideologies on the
supreme court is essential to the system of checks and balances.  To
appoint judges in an ideology-blind way is not looking at the whole picture.

TD: McCain needs to be mindful of the look on his face.  Boy did he just look angry a minute or two ago while Obama was speaking.  Fact is, the Roe v. Wade issue is in Obama's wheelhouse.  HE'S A CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, for pity's sake!

Chris J: Why is it that Republicans feel that they have the right to legislate our morals?

TD: Well, they feel that abortion is murder.  Murder is certainly legislatable. 

Mucho: Any one have a white tee shirt johnny boy can borrow as a flag??

Mary J: Did McCain just make that googly-eyed crazy look at Obama?  Wow.  He’s finished.  Obama still has to keep steady for three weeks – a lot can happen and he can’t be overconfident – but the independents watching and trying to make up their minds have to be unimpressed with McCain’s answers and behavior. This guy wants to be present in less than 3 months and he’s looking more like W with his goofy looks than like a guy with a respectable record who can lead the nation.

Chris J: Obama's "tell", when he's angry, is that he takes a sip of water.  Very interesting....look for it.

Dave L: Sorry, I think some of you are giving the American public a little to much credit.  Marketing 101 is hit them with your product as often as possible.  No one will even remember you until the 9th time they see your commercial (Gorilla Marketing).  Repeating something enough makes most American's drink cheap beer and buy tons of sh!t they don't need.  SUV's, HDTV, fancy import beer, HBO, all the crap for their kids...

Luke O: Obama, 91, McCain gets sacked in the end zone.  Will McCain come out and endorse Obama tomorrow, conceding that he is the better person for the job?  If O doesn't get elected, after this debate, I am moving to
Canada.  McCain, put your glasses on and look at the score-board.  John,
cut your losses and fake a heart attack.  At least you'll get the
sympathy vote.

Paddy O: For Luke:  "New Federalism" brought forth by Reagan is the return of power to the states from the federal government....and pretty much championed by the Rehnquist Court.

Mucho: Charter schools are a business. They offer a service. It should be the parents choice whether or not to buy this service. If education becomes privatized, then all or most "good" teachers and educators will be seduced by higher paychecks and the public education system will cease to do it's job, OFFER GOOD PUBLIC EDUCATION.

Dave L: Obama hit on responsibility again w/ teaching kids at home and turning off the TV.  So many Americans just want to throw their kids in school and expect a valedictorian to come back.  Most schools in America suck and it isn't just about funding or charter schools.  Its about doing work at home too!

Bryna B: the answer to improving education is not necessarily the answer.
changing the culture of education and the expectation of cultivating critical
thinking skills is crucial to the change that we need for this country.

And as someone who is looking at tens of thousands of dollars in
undergrad debt, plus possibly $150,000-$200,000 more from med school, yeah, I'd say that making higher education more accessible & affordable is something that should be considered.
 

TD: Okay, debate's over.  More comments from all of you still in the pipeline, but let's get everybody's final take on this debate as well, who won, etc. 

Chris J: I don't agree here.  We've seen that the free market doesn't work when it comes to economics, I don't think that it would work with schools either. 

Dave L: To TD, if you are pro-choice then abortion is about constitutional law.  IF you are pro-life then it is about FAITH, and you and I have discussed that recently.  It's about a completely different worl view.

TD: If you are pro-choice it's about a woman's right to choose.  Most of those women don't know squat about constitutional law, a penumbra of privacy that isn't spelled out in the constitution, or any of that crap. If you are pro-life, you probably believe that life starts at conception per the bible, and therefore abortion is murder.
 

Paddy O: At least my prediction is correct, this is soooooooooooo over.  Time to start picking cabinet members.

Chris J: Earth to McCain....Palin's kid does NOT have Autism..so why would Palin know anything about Autism?

This debate was an utter mauling.  McCain jabbed, and Barack responded each time with consecutive roundhouse.  Obama looked and performed like a President, and McCain looked like an irrational child.  Bob Sheiffer was an amazing moderator. 

McCain's cut man has some work to do.

Yes, there have been a long line of McCain's that have served in the military...that's how he kept his flight status after crashing his plane 5 times, one of which almost brought down an aircraft carrier.

Denn H: no incumbent party has ever won a presidential election by running away from its own.
Dems lost in '68 when Humphrey ran against Johnson, more than against
Nixon
Reps lost in '76 when Ford ran against Nixon legacy
Dems lost in '00 when Gore distanced himself from Clinton
Reps will lose this year, McCain can't get far enough away from Bush

TD: Amen, brother.

Mucho: What are the requirements for receiving a voucher to attend a charter school? is it the child's performance in said school? Or the family's income and financial status? This is the first that I have heard of the voucher system for attending charter school. What happened to treating charter schools like private colleges and accepting students and offering students financial aid to attend?

Final statements... lets see if ol' johnny boy can contain himself enough NOT to interrupt after Obama speaks. His closing argument was like Chef Boyardee Beefaroni, overprepared and full of toxins

Obama sounds more or less like he is speaking from the cuff. Way to bring out the "work every single day" way to point out W.'s extended vacation

CINDY!!!!!!!!!!!!! we told you NOT to match the carpet!

Bryna B: did Cindy not know that the carpet was going to be matching her suit? Yikes!!!

Luke O: Paddy-O, my apologies for my ignorance about the New Federalism.  How is it that federalism is a term that got attached to state power?  The word "federalism" seems to imply federal power.

TD: Luke, it's just a temporal thing.  There's a difference between Hamilton's Federalism, which advocated for a strong central government, and Calabresi's Federalist Society, which originated in the 1980s. 

Mary J: Well, I’m not impressed with the closing speeches.  And what was that little nervous dance by McCain after he shook Obama’s hand? I think I said it all during the debate but I’ll repeat:  (1) Obama must not get cocky and must remain humble or he’ll lose ground. (2) I agree with Paddy O that a heart attack and a sympathy vote could work wonders for McCain at this point.  These debates are a big part of the campaign but not the only part.  Three weeks is a long time and what happens with the economy is going to affect the outcome of this race.  Plenty of voters not listening to these debates and watching Fox News so I’m not 100% confident that the best man for the job in so many respects i.e. Barack Obama has it in the bag until I see those election returns on November 5th.

Let me also be a kiss a** and add a thank you to TD for putting this online live blog together.  This has been a fun way to participate in these debates.  Now go get some sleep since you and I are in Obama’s 95% that must go to work and could desperately use a break.

Luke O: I echo Mary J. Tom, thanks for the forum.

Dennis H: McCain gets a couple of points for showing up and staying through the end. The mercy rule should have been invoked though. Obama pulled ahead by more than 10 points early on and never looked back.

TD: Amen, brother.  Preacher DH is sermonizing tonight!

Chris J: TD:   You can't base legislation on faith nor can you make a coherent rational argument that revolves around faith.  You CAN argue with facts and the constitution.  Their worldview is irrelevant, their faith is their own and not anyone else's.

TD: I disagree on both points.  Many societies have legislated based on faith.  What about these Muslim legal codes that millions adhere to?  You can also make a coherent rational argument based on faith, the only drawback being that if you're relying on faith, there may not be any scientifically provable facts to back it up. 

Chris J: We're not talking about "societies", or muslim culture's, we're talking about the modern secular American society.  We are a nation of many beliefs and, part of the protection our constitution offers is equal protection of our beliefs.  You cannot, in this environment, in THIS country, base your legislation off of a faith based worldview.  It is unethical and unsupportable and, insane.  I believe this, because the giant unseen hamster in the sky tells me so.

Dave L: The muslim legal codes that millions follow are followed by millions of muslims.  America is full Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Agnostics and Atheists.  We can't legislate any one's beliefs.

TD: Gentlemen - if you're talking about whether legislating based on religious beliefs is advisable or desirable, I agree with you that it's not, unless of course we all agree on a set of beliefs.  It is possible to do so, though, which is the point I was making. 

Dave L: Kind of a lame ending.  I did like the format and I am glad they got to exchange face to face.  McCain never did try to kick ass though.  A very disappointing performance from McCain who relied on the old marketing ideas of repeating until blue in the face.  It did keep in in line with Palin's short story to tell.  Sticking to a short list of talking points might help her on the stump but did no good for him in this debate.  I was really hoping McCain would do something to attract my vote but he failed miserably.  Obama looked in control and presidential and definitely won my vote...  As long as nothing bizarre shows up in the next 3 weeks.

Luke O: Yes, Kudos to Bob, he was far superior to the other moderators at
limiting answers and directing the debate as well as asking provocative
questions.

Nora, I like the Chef Boyardee  (lol).

TD: If you ask me, I think somebody got their ass whupped, but it wasn't Obama!  Paddy O was right - McCain came with the same tired talking points and arguments that either Obama or the press have refuted a thousand times.  Most importantly, McCain was clearly losing his temper towards the end, while Obama remained calm, cool and collected.  Admittedly, Obama was mostly playing defense, but with his poll numbers, that's all he needed to do, so this was a clear victory for Obama.  If I were him, I'd triple my security detail over the next three weeks, because unless something drastic happens, he will be our next President! 

This live-blog without a doubt featured the most reader participation of the four.  THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR MAKING THIS LIVE-BLOG A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!

PLEASE JOIN TSP LIVE ON ELECTION DAY AS WE LIVE-BLOG THE ELECTION RESULTS!!!  CHECK IN WITH US AT TD@SYSTOCRACY.COM WITH YOUR ELECTION DAY STORIES AND WE'LL POST THEM!!!

ALSO, PLEASE VISIT TSP SOON TO VIEW OUR OFFICIAL ENDORSEMENT OF BARACK OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT!!