THE SYSTOCRAT PAPERS

Fellow Systocrats: 

WELCOME TO OUR LIVE COVERAGE OF THE VP DEBATE!! 

TD:Tonight, I'm joined in the virtual TSP studio by Paddy O'Brien, who will provide expert political commentary during TSP's live-blog of tonight's event.  If you're following along with us during the debate and want to weigh in, please email us at td@systocracy.com or post a comment below.  In the meantime, please check out our PREGAME COVERAGE OF THE DEBATES, PART I (PALIN) AND PART II (BIDEN)!!!

TD: Pat, as we get ready for the candidates to appear, here's my take on what they each need to do tonight to help their respective campaigns. For Palin, she needs to have some kind of answer for every single question, even if it's the most general, nonspecific answer in the world - no Katie Couric moments or she's done.  Otherwise, expectations are so low that so long as she doesn't fall off the stage, it's probably not the end of the road for McCain's chances.  If I can be completely honest here, I'm really hoping that she doesn't burst into tears after a question on foreign policy and run from the stage!

For Biden, it's simple.  Answer the question, only the question, and then shut the hell up!  Do not engage!  Do not engage!  If I were Palin, I'd try to provoke Biden with one of those "he's been in Washington since I was in 2nd grade . . ." comments she's been making on the campaign trail this past week. 

Paddy B: I'm not sure that any one candidate has had as much pressure on them as Palin has tonite.  McCain's campaign is essentially at the tipping point.  If she bombs tonite as bad as she bombed in the Couric interview it could all be over.  That would leave McCain needing to essentially knockout Obama in one of the last two debates.  1) I can't ever remember a knockout in a debate...the closest might have been when Dukakis bothced the question regarding what he would do if his wife was raped. 2)  It's Obama, he's not getting knocked out; he's just that good. 

For Biden, the roadmap for a good debate was laid out perfectly for him....by John McCain.  He just needs to show that he has generally infinite knowledge of the issues.  He also needs to avoid his penchant for foot-in-mouth disease...and if he says something that someone has already said he better give them credit or the plagiarizing issue will be back.  No sighing and no invasion of space. 

Palin needs to attack, attack, attack and attack some more.  She needs to attack Biden on this paying taxes is patriotic.  She has to have a line that basically says that paying taxes is the entire antithesis of the foundations of this country.  Does Biden really believe that Sam Adams, John Hancock and the other participants in the Boston Tea Party think paying more taxes is patriotic?  She seems to have very little knowledge of the issues, (or any major newspaper or magazine....or Supreme Court decision,)  she needs to paint broad strokes, stay as general as possible and hammer at the themes of cut spending, big government is bad and Washington is broken.

It should be interesting. . .

TD: Here we go . . . Palin looks and sounds nervous as she came out - she said "thank you" about 50 times.  I thought Biden was going to kiss her on the cheek when they met at center stage - the first gaffe avoided! 

TD: Palin's first response on the economy.  Sounds credible, except that she's arguing that McCain will bring more oversight . . .

TD: Biden looks STONED.  Palin's been pretty smooth through the first five minutes.  She's trying to assume the mantle of change from Obama as opposed to the "same old politics," which is interesting given who her running mate is and the positions he's taken over the last 7 years.

Special guest Mary J joins us in the studio:  So do you guys have a running count of how many times she's said John McCain so far in the first 10 minutes?  And if she says HAAKEE Mom again I'm going to choke. So far Biden looks cool and collected, if not a little older and more tired than he did several months ago. 

Paddy B:

Biden:  We'll be hearing that the fundamentals were strong until November.   Semi-decent comeback from Palin about the workforce...although not likely true.   Is she an actor???  It seems as though she has an awful lot of this material MEMORIZED!!!!!

All Due Respect????  Isn't that a euphemism for F*&k you????

Whose fault????  Loaded question; let's play the blame game.  Decent beginning answer by blaming the lenders.  Strict oversight by the gov't???  That's against what Ronald Reagan stood for?  I thought she was conservative????

My guy warned first, No, my guy warned first.  Thanks for the substance!!

Why does Biden need to ask someone how much it cost to fill a tank?  Doesn't he know?  Sounds like he's out of touch.  She missed an opening...just so she can get her talking points in.   She is incapable of thinking on her feet.

Paddy B: Biden just repeated what he just said.  Our memories aren't that short.  Biden needs to wipe that shit eating grin off his face.  He cannot afford Al Gore's moments.  And lower his voice. No shouting!!!!!!! Sounds condescending. 

TD: I agree - the "condescending" alarm just went off among viewers in my living room for the same reason. 

TD: Ah, the first real zinger of the night - McCain's health care plan is the "ultimate bridge to nowhere!"  WELL DONE.  But he is walking the line between well-informed and "condescending" . . .

TD: Palin just said that at least McCain doesn't "say different things to different groups. . . "  I thought there was a "Bittergate" reference coming, but she didn't go there.  At least not yet . . .

Mary J: Well, trying to be objective (and not by any means a Sarah Palin fan), if she appeals to folks for being very simple and plucky, she's proving that she is simple and plucky and very unpolished.  Again, it doesn't appeal to me at all - I like some knowledge behind my candidates - but I can see how she would appeal to a lot of folks.  And when it comes down to it, Palin and Biden are there to be cheerleaders for McCain and Obama.  I knocked Palin earlier for saying John McCain too much but Biden is doing it just as much.  And Paddy my friend, Biden's sh#%-eating grin is matched by Palin's flashy Miss Alaska smile.  So far I think they are pretty well matched and appealing to their bases.  Let me weigh in with my (gasp!) undecided husband to see if he's being swayed more by one than the other.

Paddy B: She shouldn't say that McCain's health care plan won't cost the gov't anything, she should say that it won't cost you the taxpayer anything more.

Biden's not from Scranton. He's from Washington D.C.

Great attack on MCCain's health plan. The health plan is pretty much a disaster . . . although not as big a disaster as socialized medicine.  Right TD???

That Bridge to nowhere line was not funny; sounded corny and too rehearsed.  He's making good points on what they won't support/slow up on but he needs to lower his voice otherwise it almost sounds as if he's talking down to us . . . well me anyway.  I have my doubts about their ability to cut wasteful spending out of the budget.  He has 534 friends in DC who won't let him cut out the wasteful spending/earmarks/pork.

Palin needs to stay w/what she did to the oil companies in Alaska.  What about stopping the greed and corruption in Washington DC???  Greed is what makes Wall Street . . . and to a certain extent the economy go.  It just needs to be regulated better.  Can't let the foxes guard the henhouse. 

If she's going to bring up corruption and greed on Wall Street, she should at least try and throw in some zingers re: Franklin Raines, one of Obama's financial advisors and a disaster as CEO of either Fannie/Freddie. 

Biden's repeating himself again.  He already said Obama warned first and McCain was surprised.  I got it the first time.

TD: At least Biden's not repeating himself re: talking about energy, NO MATTER WHAT THE QUESTION IS!!!  I guess that's the strategy for her to have an answer to every question . . . It's gonna be a little tedious when she's still talking energy an hour from now! 

Paddy B: Now she's repeating herself.  We get it, drill baby drill.  YAWN!!! What's next?  How about attacking Ford, GM, etc., and why they can't make energy efficient vehicles.  When was the last time they lead the way in car innovation?  Time for them to get back in the ballgame and stop playing second fiddle to Toyota. 

Global warming: I actually like that she said she didn't care about the cause.  The cause is the cause, now we have to find a way to fix it.  I like that.  I don't care whose fault it was or how we got here.  Now that we are here, how the hell are we going to get out?

Solutions: Biden's losing me on his global warming position.  Yes, man is part of the problem.  How is he going to get China to stop opening those coal plants?  Good luck!  The Chinese are going to do whatever they have to.  She should have asked him how he was going to get them to stop.  Go to the UN?  HA!!!

TD: Ahhight, this business about Obama voting "not to fund the troops" by insisting on a timeline really gets on my nerves!  I'm glad Biden's putting the hammer down on her re: this topic.  I "didn't hear a plan" in Palin's response either. 

Now I'm hearing this "surrender" nonsense in terms of bringing the troops home early.  EVEN PETRAEUS WON'T SPEAK OF THE IRAQ WAR IN TERMS OF "VICTORY!"

Mary J: Did Palin actually give an answer on the gay marriage question? We're trying to figure out what she just said. I think she was refusing to answer. 

TD: She did. She said she's against it, same as Biden.

Mary J: So we're back to where we were before the surge and that puts us ahead??  Maybe I don't read enough but I haven't seen it in the press though I do know they are putting Navy guys on the streets in Iraq with guns.  They didn't sign up for that and have NO experience in doing that.  So the surge is stretching our resources beyond their limit and we don't really have anything behind that.  Why can't they acknowledge that we aren't going to win and get the f&#$ out? 

I like the "God love him but he's wrong" comment from Biden.  Nice. 

TD: Biden just said that Obama never said he would sit down with Ahmadinajead.  I think he did say that during one of the early Dem debates, didn't he? 

Mary J: OK. Palin just went down a bit more in my eyes.  Obama/Biden are pusing McCain/Palin as being just like W.  She said "nucular" a bunch of times.  THAT sounds just like W to me. 

So the rest of the world hates us because of our rights and freedoms?  NO SARAH!! They hate us because we invade them with no cause and do it because we need to teach about ignoring history for the last 700 years.  We could go back a lot farther if you want to talk about repeating imperialistic mistakes. 

Paddy B: Ahh.  Now I get the China reference . . . problem w/live blogging . . . and permanent politicians.  They wait 5 mins after they say something to give us the last details.  She giving a good answer for her base on the domestic couples issues.  She should have said that she supports civil unions instead of the legalese of contract negotiations. 

Foreign Policy . . . here we go. 

Just a quick note so far.  She didn't blow it on the domestic issues.  Biden still showed a great grasp of specifics.  McCain should have chosen Gen. Petraeus as VP the way they fawn over the guy. Let's remember he hasn't won anything . . . yet.  (Point: I think eventually he will). 

The whole thing about funding the troops is ridiculous b/c we know it was all about the timeline. 

Bad answer . . . white flag?  Blah Blah Blah.  She should just say we are going to end the war also, just not on an arbitrary timeline. 

McCain/Bush, now McCain/Cheney - good move tying him to Cheney.  How long until Haliburton gets mentioned? 

Biden: good answer on the Pakistan-Iran question.  They both suck.  Does Palin know what a madras is?  That leader of Al Qaida???  Does she know his name???  Does she know his name???  Just say it???  Geezus, he's not Beetlejuice. 

Preconditions, preconditions, naive . . . I HEARD THIS ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  HOW ABOUT SOMETHING ORIGINAL!!!!!!

Back ye up there?????  What the heck is that????

Biden scoring some points here re: Iraq . . . although the Spain thing is kinda a lie . . . b/c same context as Chavez and other Hispanic sounding dictator names. 

Did Biden just refer to himself in the 3rd person???  Who is he, Bob Dole???

TD: TD doesn't know who Biden thinks he is!! LOL!!  Biden is putting the smack down on Palin/McCain right now re: foreign policy.  Ah- she just said "nucular" again! 

Special guest Jess M. joins us in the studio: New drinking game - take a drink every time Palin says something inaccurate.  GET DRUNK FAST!!!

Mary J: But Jess, don't underestimate the power of folks who like dear Sarah (again, NOT me).  I see her as a complete moron who could never get hired if she talked like this in an interview.  BUT, she's not completely falling apart and crying and she does have answers, even if they sound stupid.  Good of her to remind us that she's a Washington outsider.  That's one of the ways W got elected.  And no one (but my sister) is a W fan now but that "aw shucks" attitude has wide appeal among "aw shucks" folks. 

John McCain knows how to win a war??  I guess we won Vietnam like we are winning Iraq.  I think she really screwed that one up. 

OUR LIVE DEBATE COVERAGE CONTINUES HERE!!!