THE SYSTOCRAT PAPERS

OUR LIVE COVERAGE OF THE VP DEBATE CONTINUES BELOW!!

Special guest Chris J joins us in the studio: She's better at avoiding answers than Cheney. I have NO confidence that anything coming out of her mouth is her own opinion. 

I'm up to 5 questions that she's danced around or either refused to answer.  Any of us ever showed up to a job interview with anwers like this, and we'd get laughed out of the building.

Paddy B: Biden's making some good ground on foreign policy.  However, he's laying the groundwork for McCain to have good ammunition in the next Presidential debate. 

I like nuke question. Palin is kinda blowing this question.  Sounds like the beauty queen contestant last year who bombed in a question.  Great, Palin didn't even answer the question.  Couldn't she just say that it was a last resort and then mention Harry Truman?  Does she even know that Truman dropped the bomb?  Although w/Biden's recent history failure himself he might think it was FDR . . . just like how he went on TV when the market crashed in 1929. 

However, Biden clearly knows foreign policy and he has this material down pat.  She's clearly on shaky ground.  She needs a bell to end the round . . . of course . . .pf course Biden's long-winded answer might have given her a breath.  SHUT UP AFTER YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT!!!!

Biden's beginning to pull away. McCain's campaign was stupid to let foreign policy go second. 

Why does Biden always look so angry????  I think he's thinking "I can't believe I'm up here w/this novice.  Still, where's the alleged Biden charm?  He's saying all good things but his delivery isn't that great. His mastery of the specifics is impressive, though. 

TD: Agreed on most of your points.  I'l lcircle back to that dig on socialized medicine once I check in with my buddy Dennis Kucinich!  In the meantime, for those of us who are up on the issues, she's pretty weak, but for those just looking for her to say anything coherent, she's more than fulfilling her mission.  Unless she trips in the next twenty minutes, the GOP is going to declare victory, ridiculous as that sounds. 

CJ: As a rule, I don't trust people who speak in third person . . . but I did laugh. 

CJ: Wow . . . I didn't know that McCain, and McCain only, knows what evil is . . .

Paddy B: I'm actually surprised I haven't clicked the channel yet, probably b/c we are blogging, but most likely b/c there's no Sox game. 

She's getting killed on foreign policy. Her handlers suck!!!  McCain knows how to win a war b/c he's been there?  I thought we lost Vietnam?

Great question re: heartbeat away . . . Great answer by Biden.  His talking points re: the Obama policies are great. 

Uh Oh, BUSH DOCTRINE . .  .potential problem ahead. 

ANSWER THE QUESTION, PALIN!!!!  How the hell does ANWAR answer the question?  It took her two minutes to finally get to a coherent answer.  How does attacking Congress now answer the question???  She should have been attacking Congress from 9:00.  70 minutes later finally address the one group that has less approval than Bush. 

What the F is she talking about???? "There you go again?"  That's an old, old line.  Talking about teachers isn't going to get the teacher unions to vote for you.  Teachers are great, move the F on!!!!!!

TD: Pat, I can't believe that we're discussing this from opposite sides of where we usually stand, but I do thiink Palin is doing what she needs to do to appeal to her base, i.e. voters who just want somebody who looks and sounds like themselves and who are NOT going to stick around for the fact-check and post-debate analysis after the debate. Frankly I think she's doing as well as she can possibly do, which isn't too well, objectively speaking, and I don't think she's demonstrating any qualifications, but she's done enough to reenergize the base.  This is definitely not going to be the end for the GOP ticket.

Special guest Denn H joins us in the studio: I think if you watch without sound, Sarah looks good.  Biden's forehead looks frozen . . . Botox?

Remember the Kennedy-Nixon debate?  Those who watched tv thought Kennedy won.  Kennedy looked good, Nixon looked pasty. 

People listening on the radio thought Nixon won.

Palin is a classic "store front" - looks good, but the inventory ain't there.

CJ: Has she ever read the Constitution?

TD: Chris, you're kidding yourself.  THERE IS NO CONSTITUTION LEFT AFTER 7 YEARS OF BUSH!!!!!!

CJ: What does "exceptionalism" mean?

TD: It means she doesn't know what the f*#& she's talking about!!

Paddy B: TD, they'll both declare victory but I think here it's not like the last debate was essentially . . . in my humble opinion was too close to call.  Here's Biden's winning . . . fairly clearly.  No KO or TKO but if this was a 12 round bout, I'm not sure she won a round . . . maybe 1 or 2, and that's probably generous. 

Is that the first time I heard the word "change???"  Took a long time.  I might have just missed it.  Here we go, founding fathers . . . now bring up the Boston Tea Party and how paying taxes is patriotic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's where Palin should say that Cheney is dangerous . . . if he's your hunting partner.  That line might win the debate!  LOL!

He hates Cheney, that's hatred in his eyes.  WOW!!!

Sarah, PLEASE STOP REPEATING YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  EYE YI YI!!!!!!!!!! OK, bringing it back to your family is a good move. Too little too late.  Referencing Reagan is always good for the base. 

He's putting on the finishing touches here . . . sentimental . . wish he wasn't reading it, though. 

No answer can beat Biden's statement.  Maverick, Maverick, Maverick.  ENOUGH!!!  Romney is no Maverick!!!  Enough about Wall Street, GREED AND CORRUPTION ON CAPITAL HILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CJ: Biden just brought the hammer of perspective down on bright and sunny Palin.  Great use of getting choked up there . . . big points.

Denn H: Biden is clearing the bases with this Maverick title Palin keeps harping on. 

Jess M: Well, I'm PUKEY DRUNK right now!! WHEEEEE!!!!!!

Special guest Rio joins us in the studio:  How is it possible for Palin to lower taxes and build infrastructure at the same time???

TD: Palin just said she likes to be able to "answer the tough questions . . . for the American people" and my living room just erupted with a chorus of "SHE DIDN"T ANSWER A GODDAMN THING!!!"

Paddy B: Talking about the Supreme Court after Palin's Couric disaster is a good move.  If you're working together, doesn't that constitute  compromise?  I think Biden needs to start questioning the motive of the 534 other morons. I bet most of them their motive is money . . . or fame.  Lord knows it isn't doing what's best for the country.

CJ: Sarah . . . enough.  Trickle down theory is finished.  Stop insinuating otherwise. 

TD: Okay, debate's over. Let's get some postgame comments from everyone in the TSP studio . . . Mary J, I note that the Down Syndrome baby is on the stage late at night once again . . .

Mary J: My ears are smoking again at the baby on stage.  Her base will say "What a great Mom!"  My baby is asleep in his crib where all babies should be this time of night.  Yes her baby appears to be asleep as well.  But what on earth is he getting out of being there?? Well, Mommy thinks it makes her look good and "diverse." 

Special guest Mary K joins us in the studio:

She's a cheerleader

He doesn't answer the question.

I'm voting libertarian whomever it is to get the third party percentage up . . .

but coffee aside, I turned off at 9:30. 

Paddy B: Closing arguments

Palin: That was clearly a jab at Michelle Obama and the "always been pround to be an American."  The closing was pretty good . .  .not great. 

Biden: Four years from now will also be the most important election.  Four years ago was the most important election.  How can Biden not mention Palin's kid going overseas but mention McCain's????  She's standing two feet from you.  Certitude?  Too big a word to use.  Good last couple sentences though.

Verdict: I think Biden won b/c he so clearly won foreign policy (and no foot in mouth).  She didn't fall on her face but I'm not sold on the fact she put the brakes on McCain's slide in the polls. If McCain wants to change anything he has to do it himself. 

While I think Biden won, clearly the race didn't end tonight . . . and I think that there was a clearly a chance of that. She held enough of her own that now we have to watch the next two debates. 

CJ: Huge discrepancy in working knowledge of politics, in favor of Biden.  Palin showed that she's the right kind of slippery, when it comes to being a Republican. She didn't slip up, which is good for her, but I got the distinct feeling that all of her answers were memorized, whereas Biden came across as having FULL knowledge of which he was speaking.  Get her off script again and she'll fall flat on her face like she did with Couric.

I give it to Biden.

CJ: Just saw Ferrarro's commentary - she's an ASSHAT!

TD: CJ, what network are you watching, CNN?  We've got MSNBC on in here . . . Pat Buchanan just said that of the four candidates, Palin was the most exciting debate candidate, to which Rachel Maddow responded "Yes - exciting and wrong vs. BORING AND RIGHT!!"

Paddy B: More comments: Was I watching another debate????  How come so many people (non-Fox) think she won?  Did she win b/c expectations were so low?  I mean she wasn't horrible but I thought Biden won.  Maybe I missed something?  Maybe it's b/c I watched less and listened more as I was typing . . . just like that Kennedy/Nixon reference earlier. 

TD: It's because expectations were so low.  Although I think that Palin objectively did a crappy job, she did so much better than anyone expected, in that she at least had something to say in response to each question (not necessarily an ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, mind you).  The GOP is definitely going to be able to credibly spin this as a victory to their followers.   

Denn H: Now comes the "who won" talk . . . Neither hit it out of the park. 

On substance: Biden actually answered the questions and kept on track well.  Palin talked smoothly, but didn't convey much . .  .didn't even get in the neighborhood when answering some of the questions. 

On looks: Palin won, apologies Joe, but she looks better on camera.

Where's the beef?  Joe had the quarter pounder.  Sarah is still looking for the bun.  Who will get the greatest mileage from spin?  Palin . . . she lasted the whole 90 minutes without saying much, but looking good doing it. 

TD: Agreed on most of this.  Her followers didn't need her to say much.

CJ: NBC (Brian Williams) had Ferraro on immediately after the closing remarks.  She made a comment about Palin not falling on her face and how good that is for women.  The wife and I both got the feeling like when Biden made that "remark" Obama being articulate. 

TD: Here's my take on the debate.  Both candidates did exactly what they needed to do.  Biden avoided any serious gaffes and Palin avoided looking and sounding as utterly unqualified as she did during the Couric/Gibson interviews.  In terms of who gets a bounce from this event, I think it depends on whether voters are actually paying attention to the substance of her answers. 

For someone who was onstage for 90 minutes, Palin really didn't say too much, while Biden was most impressive in his grasp of the issues.  Palin did hit all the key talking points, though, even if her facts were wrong and her answers did not match the questions.  She harped on the McCain myth that Obama's tax plan will raise taxes for the middle class, spun Obama's vote for a timetable for troop withdrawal into a refusal to fund the troops, and even managed to give up the religious right a shout-out with her reference to the "Shining City on the Hill."  People who were already inclined to vote for her will take what they want from her performance.  If anything more clearly demonstrates her limited grasp of national issues, it was her insistence on discussing energy policy whenever she didn't know the answer to a question. Folks, she talked about energy at LOT.  The most disturbing moment was probably when she said she wants to be a Cheney-esque VP - in fact, she wants to  expand the VP's role!  After Cheney???  All I can say is, "WOW!!!"

Biden's best moments were probably when he hammered Palin/McCain on the fact that McCain's proposed policies are nearly identical to Bush/Cheney's.  Other than a gaffe-free night, there's probably no better point that Biden could have made. 

Given the state of the economy, I'm going to give the debate to Biden, because I do think that independent voters are paying strict attention, in which case they'll realize that Palin, while she didn't implode under the intense pressure leading up to this debate, is nonetheless all style and no substance. 

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN TSP'S LIVE BLOG OF THIS DEBATE!!!  MORE POST-DEBATE COVERAGE COMING SOON!!!